[whispersystems] Signal on Cyanogen Mod without gapps

[Leo Francisco]

Sorry if this has been asked a million times before! I'm struggling to
find info on what the current situation is.

Is there any up to date instructions for installing Signal on Cyanogen
Mod without the Google Apps stuff?

I don't mind learning to build it from scratch and patching updates
manually.

All the best
Leo

[Moritz Bartl]

Post by Leo Francisco
Is there any up to date instructions for installing Signal on Cyanogen
Mod without the Google Apps stuff?

In some sense, yes. There is a third-party F-droid repository that has
Signal, both as a version that still uses Google Push Notifications
("Cloud Messaging"), and a fork that uses WebSockets:
https://fdroid.eutopia.cz/

Even for the version that uses GCM and to stay compatible with regular
googlified users, you can avoid a Google account and the rest of the
Google stuff with the microG GmsCore:
https://o9i.de/2015/10/23/howto-gmscore.html

You can also use Signal without a SIM card in your phone or tied to a
different VoIP number:
https://yawnbox.com/index.php/2015/03/14/create-an-anonymous-textsecure-and-redphone-phone-number/

[Leo Francisco]

Thanks for the info Mortiz and Boskote.

I'm going to try and get LibreSignal installed today. It's actually more
for testing at this stage.
Perhaps eventually I'll pick up a cheap phone purely for using Signal.
It's that old security vs practicality curve. For me at the moment money
is the issue, so I just need to play with it on my current Android phone
which doesn't have Gapps.

It's great to see someone in the community filling that niche and also
to see the main Signal project maintain it's tight focus. It's a worthy
fork I think and there's no reason it can't exist alongside Signal,
similar to Cyanogen Mod and Android. The code is up on Github so anyone
can audit it:
https://github.com/xmikos/fdroiddata
https://github.com/JavaJens/TextSecure

This all depends on whether it actually works and does what it says it
does. Tbh, I'll probably just buy a second phone to save time and
hassle. I just hate the idea of all the location tracking that comes
with all the Google stuff.

https://github.com/mission-impossible-android/mission-impossible-android
Is always a great read too.

Thanks
Leo

Post by Moritz Bartl

Post by Leo Francisco
Is there any up to date instructions for installing Signal on Cyanogen
Mod without the Google Apps stuff?

In some sense, yes. There is a third-party F-droid repository that has
Signal, both as a version that still uses Google Push Notifications
https://fdroid.eutopia.cz/
Even for the version that uses GCM and to stay compatible with regular
googlified users, you can avoid a Google account and the rest of the
https://o9i.de/2015/10/23/howto-gmscore.html
You can also use Signal without a SIM card in your phone or tied to a
https://yawnbox.com/index.php/2015/03/14/create-an-anonymous-textsecure-and-redphone-phone-number/

[Leo Francisco]

Also, just for archival sake:
http://wiki.cyanogenmod.org/w/Google_Apps

Post by Leo Francisco
Thanks for the info Mortiz and Boskote.
I'm going to try and get LibreSignal installed today. It's actually
more for testing at this stage.
Perhaps eventually I'll pick up a cheap phone purely for using Signal.
It's that old security vs practicality curve. For me at the moment
money is the issue, so I just need to play with it on my current
Android phone which doesn't have Gapps.
It's great to see someone in the community filling that niche and also
to see the main Signal project maintain it's tight focus. It's a
worthy fork I think and there's no reason it can't exist alongside
Signal, similar to Cyanogen Mod and Android. The code is up on Github
https://github.com/xmikos/fdroiddata
https://github.com/JavaJens/TextSecure
This all depends on whether it actually works and does what it says it
does. Tbh, I'll probably just buy a second phone to save time and
hassle. I just hate the idea of all the location tracking that comes
with all the Google stuff.
https://github.com/mission-impossible-android/mission-impossible-android
Is always a great read too.
Thanks
Leo

Post by Moritz Bartl

Post by Leo Francisco
Is there any up to date instructions for installing Signal on Cyanogen
Mod without the Google Apps stuff?

In some sense, yes. There is a third-party F-droid repository that has
Signal, both as a version that still uses Google Push Notifications
https://fdroid.eutopia.cz/
Even for the version that uses GCM and to stay compatible with regular
googlified users, you can avoid a Google account and the rest of the
https://o9i.de/2015/10/23/howto-gmscore.html
You can also use Signal without a SIM card in your phone or tied to a
https://yawnbox.com/index.php/2015/03/14/create-an-anonymous-textsecure-and-redphone-phone-number/

[Leo Francisco]

Apologies for the separate emails (I'm on a research spree) but does
anyone have any opinions on this project?
http://opengapps.org/

This sounds appealing:
https://github.com/opengapps/opengapps/wiki/Pico-Package

Post by Leo Francisco
http://wiki.cyanogenmod.org/w/Google_Apps

Post by Leo Francisco
Thanks for the info Mortiz and Boskote.
I'm going to try and get LibreSignal installed today. It's actually
more for testing at this stage.
Perhaps eventually I'll pick up a cheap phone purely for using
Signal. It's that old security vs practicality curve. For me at the
moment money is the issue, so I just need to play with it on my
current Android phone which doesn't have Gapps.
It's great to see someone in the community filling that niche and
also to see the main Signal project maintain it's tight focus. It's a
worthy fork I think and there's no reason it can't exist alongside
Signal, similar to Cyanogen Mod and Android. The code is up on Github
https://github.com/xmikos/fdroiddata
https://github.com/JavaJens/TextSecure
This all depends on whether it actually works and does what it says
it does. Tbh, I'll probably just buy a second phone to save time and
hassle. I just hate the idea of all the location tracking that comes
with all the Google stuff.
https://github.com/mission-impossible-android/mission-impossible-android
Is always a great read too.
Thanks
Leo

Post by Moritz Bartl

Post by Leo Francisco
Is there any up to date instructions for installing Signal on Cyanogen
Mod without the Google Apps stuff?

In some sense, yes. There is a third-party F-droid repository that has
Signal, both as a version that still uses Google Push Notifications
https://fdroid.eutopia.cz/
Even for the version that uses GCM and to stay compatible with regular
googlified users, you can avoid a Google account and the rest of the
https://o9i.de/2015/10/23/howto-gmscore.html
You can also use Signal without a SIM card in your phone or tied to a
https://yawnbox.com/index.php/2015/03/14/create-an-anonymous-textsecure-and-redphone-phone-number/

[Роман]

Those are just a regular Google Apps (including Google Services etc) that can be flashed additionally to CM or any other Android based ROM. Nothing different from Google original software that comes pre-installed with other ROMs.

Best regards,
Roman

Post by Leo Francisco
Apologies for the separate emails (I'm on a research spree) but does
anyone have any opinions on this project?
http://opengapps.org/
https://github.com/opengapps/opengapps/wiki/Pico-Package

Post by Leo Francisco
http://wiki.cyanogenmod.org/w/Google_Apps

Post by Leo Francisco
Thanks for the info Mortiz and Boskote.
I'm going to try and get LibreSignal installed today. It's actually
more for testing at this stage.
Perhaps eventually I'll pick up a cheap phone purely for using
Signal. It's that old security vs practicality curve. For me at the
moment money is the issue, so I just need to play with it on my
current Android phone which doesn't have Gapps.
It's great to see someone in the community filling that niche and
also to see the main Signal project maintain it's tight focus. It's a
worthy fork I think and there's no reason it can't exist alongside
Signal, similar to Cyanogen Mod and Android. The code is up on Github
https://github.com/xmikos/fdroiddata
https://github.com/JavaJens/TextSecure
This all depends on whether it actually works and does what it says
it does. Tbh, I'll probably just buy a second phone to save time and
hassle. I just hate the idea of all the location tracking that comes
with all the Google stuff.
https://github.com/mission-impossible-android/mission-impossible-android
Is always a great read too.
Thanks
Leo

Post by Moritz Bartl

Post by Leo Francisco
Is there any up to date instructions for installing Signal on Cyanogen
Mod without the Google Apps stuff?

In some sense, yes. There is a third-party F-droid repository that has
Signal, both as a version that still uses Google Push Notifications
https://fdroid.eutopia.cz/
Even for the version that uses GCM and to stay compatible with regular
googlified users, you can avoid a Google account and the rest of the
https://o9i.de/2015/10/23/howto-gmscore.html
You can also use Signal without a SIM card in your phone or tied to a
https://yawnbox.com/index.php/2015/03/14/create-an-anonymous-textsecure-and-redphone-phone-number/

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[Leo Francisco]

Does anyone know what the minimum amount of Google stuff I need to run
Signal? Is it just Play Store and that push message thingy?

Would this be sufficient?

https://github.com/opengapps/opengapps/wiki/Pico-Package


Many Thanks
Leo

Post by Роман
Those are just a regular Google Apps (including Google Services etc) that can be flashed additionally to CM or any other Android based ROM. Nothing different from Google original software that comes pre-installed with other ROMs.
Best regards,
Roman

Post by Leo Francisco
Apologies for the separate emails (I'm on a research spree) but does
anyone have any opinions on this project?
http://opengapps.org/
https://github.com/opengapps/opengapps/wiki/Pico-Package

Post by Leo Francisco
http://wiki.cyanogenmod.org/w/Google_Apps

Post by Leo Francisco
Thanks for the info Mortiz and Boskote.
I'm going to try and get LibreSignal installed today. It's actually
more for testing at this stage.
Perhaps eventually I'll pick up a cheap phone purely for using
Signal. It's that old security vs practicality curve. For me at the
moment money is the issue, so I just need to play with it on my
current Android phone which doesn't have Gapps.
It's great to see someone in the community filling that niche and
also to see the main Signal project maintain it's tight focus. It's a
worthy fork I think and there's no reason it can't exist alongside
Signal, similar to Cyanogen Mod and Android. The code is up on Github
https://github.com/xmikos/fdroiddata
https://github.com/JavaJens/TextSecure
This all depends on whether it actually works and does what it says
it does. Tbh, I'll probably just buy a second phone to save time and
hassle. I just hate the idea of all the location tracking that comes
with all the Google stuff.
https://github.com/mission-impossible-android/mission-impossible-android
Is always a great read too.
Thanks
Leo

Post by Moritz Bartl

Post by Leo Francisco
Is there any up to date instructions for installing Signal on Cyanogen
Mod without the Google Apps stuff?

In some sense, yes. There is a third-party F-droid repository that has
Signal, both as a version that still uses Google Push Notifications
https://fdroid.eutopia.cz/
Even for the version that uses GCM and to stay compatible with regular
googlified users, you can avoid a Google account and the rest of the
https://o9i.de/2015/10/23/howto-gmscore.html
You can also use Signal without a SIM card in your phone or tied to a
https://yawnbox.com/index.php/2015/03/14/create-an-anonymous-textsecure-and-redphone-phone-number/

-- реклама -----------------------------------------------------------
http://mail.i.ua/reg - и получи 1Gb для хранения писем

[Diederik de Haas]

Post by Leo Francisco
Does anyone know what the minimum amount of Google stuff I need to run
Signal? Is it just Play Store and that push message thingy?
Would this be sufficient?
https://github.com/opengapps/opengapps/wiki/Pico-Package

Yes

[Diederik de Haas]

Post by Leo Francisco
Would this be sufficient?
https://github.com/opengapps/opengapps/wiki/Pico-Package

Yes

Apparently my response caused quite some confusion.
On my phone I have CyanogenMod + OpenGApps Pico package and Signal works fine
on that. And my 'Yes' applied to the Pico Package statement/question.

I quoted more then I have now, because I thought 'Would this be sufficient?'
would give too little context. Providing context is the purpose of quoting
afaik.

I do not know whether it also works without any Google stuff, thus even
without the pico package.

[Leo Francisco]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[denis sorn]

As Diederik de Haas already mentioned, yes. AFAIK you only need Google Play
services, and Playstore. Pico package provides Google Calendar Sync (Not
the Calendar app self.) additionally to it, but that shouldn't cause you a
headache.

Post by Leo Francisco
Does anyone know what the minimum amount of Google stuff I need to run
Signal? Is it just Play Store and that push message thingy?
Would this be sufficient?
https://github.com/opengapps/opengapps/wiki/Pico-Package
Many Thanks
Leo

Post by Роман
Those are just a regular Google Apps (including Google Services etc)

that can be flashed additionally to CM or any other Android based ROM.
Nothing different from Google original software that comes pre-installed
with other ROMs.

Post by Роман
Best regards,
Roman

Post by Leo Francisco
Apologies for the separate emails (I'm on a research spree) but does
anyone have any opinions on this project?
http://opengapps.org/
https://github.com/opengapps/opengapps/wiki/Pico-Package

Post by Leo Francisco
http://wiki.cyanogenmod.org/w/Google_Apps

Post by Leo Francisco
Thanks for the info Mortiz and Boskote.
I'm going to try and get LibreSignal installed today. It's actually
more for testing at this stage.
Perhaps eventually I'll pick up a cheap phone purely for using
Signal. It's that old security vs practicality curve. For me at the
moment money is the issue, so I just need to play with it on my
current Android phone which doesn't have Gapps.
It's great to see someone in the community filling that niche and
also to see the main Signal project maintain it's tight focus. It's a
worthy fork I think and there's no reason it can't exist alongside
Signal, similar to Cyanogen Mod and Android. The code is up on Github
https://github.com/xmikos/fdroiddata
https://github.com/JavaJens/TextSecure
This all depends on whether it actually works and does what it says
it does. Tbh, I'll probably just buy a second phone to save time and
hassle. I just hate the idea of all the location tracking that comes
with all the Google stuff.

https://github.com/mission-impossible-android/mission-impossible-android

Post by Роман

Post by Leo Francisco

Post by Leo Francisco

Post by Leo Francisco
Is always a great read too.
Thanks
Leo

Post by Moritz Bartl

Post by Leo Francisco
Is there any up to date instructions for installing Signal on

Cyanogen

Post by Роман

Post by Leo Francisco

Post by Leo Francisco

Post by Leo Francisco

Post by Moritz Bartl

Post by Leo Francisco
Mod without the Google Apps stuff?

In some sense, yes. There is a third-party F-droid repository that

has

Post by Роман

Post by Leo Francisco

Post by Leo Francisco

Post by Leo Francisco

Post by Moritz Bartl
Signal, both as a version that still uses Google Push Notifications
https://fdroid.eutopia.cz/
Even for the version that uses GCM and to stay compatible with

regular

Post by Роман

Post by Leo Francisco

Post by Leo Francisco

Post by Leo Francisco

Post by Moritz Bartl
googlified users, you can avoid a Google account and the rest of the
https://o9i.de/2015/10/23/howto-gmscore.html
You can also use Signal without a SIM card in your phone or tied to a

https://yawnbox.com/index.php/2015/03/14/create-an-anonymous-textsecure-and-redphone-phone-number/

Post by Роман
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http://mail.i.ua/reg - О пПлучО 1Gb Ўля храМеМОя пОсеЌ

[Moritz Bartl]

Post by denis sorn

Post by Leo Francisco
Does anyone know what the minimum amount of Google stuff I need to run
Signal? Is it just Play Store and that push message thingy?

As Diederik de Haas already mentioned, yes. AFAIK you only need Google
Play services, and Playstore. Pico package provides Google Calendar Sync
(Not the Calendar app self.) additionally to it, but that shouldn't
cause you a headache.

Again: You don't. You do _not_ need Google Play the store, nor do you
need a Google account. You need the component that allows Google Cloud
Messaging. I linked to a set of instructions in my reply on the 4th:

https://o9i.de/2015/10/23/howto-gmscore.html

"All of the above is achieved using free and open-source software.
Installing the proprietary Google Play Services is not required. A
Google account is only needed if you want to access the Play Store."

[johanw]

Post by denis sorn
As Diederik de Haas already mentioned, yes. AFAIK you only need Google
Play services, and Playstore.

Why do you need the playstore? If you get the apk somewhere else or
build from source, I'd say the play services are enough.

[Boskote]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Josh]

Slightly off-topic, but does anyone know if CyenogenMod still integrates
with Signal automatically?

Post by Boskote

Post by Moritz Bartl

Post by Leo Francisco
Is there any up to date instructions for installing Signal on Cyanogen
Mod without the Google Apps stuff?

In some sense, yes. There is a third-party F-droid repository that has
Signal, both as a version that still uses Google Push Notifications
https://fdroid.eutopia.cz/

Actually, as is explained at the linked page, the repository distributes
LibreSignal, not Signal. Other than the name, the primary difference seems
to be that the Signal package distributed through Google Play being built
and supported by Open Whisper Systems, whereas LibreSignal is being built
by an individual, Michal Krenek and distributed through his personal
f-droid repository. It is unclear if he or others are providing any support
for LibreSignal.
Presumably the LibreSignal package is being built from the code in the OWS
github repo, so it should be functionally the same as Signal. However, the
LibreSignal packages should only be trusted as much as Michal Krenek and
the security of his distribution infrastructure. If either he or his
control of <https://fdroid.eutopia.cz/>https://fdroid.eutopia.cz/ are
compromised, then it does not matter what is supposed to be in the code. Of
course, The same goes for OWS and their control of their Google Play
distribution channel. This is a significant security difference between the
two packages, and I believe this is why OWS has insisted that the
LibreSignal package have a different name.
1) that it is easier to compromise the packager(s) and/or distribution
channel than it is to compromise *Signal itself directly, and
2) that it is easier to compromise a personal f-droid repo than it is to
compromise OWS or Google Play, then
The personal f-droid repo would plausibly be the weakest link in the
security for all users of LibreSignal. These assumptions are not
necessarily true or false, the risks involved could vary for different
users and situations (threat modeling and all that).
I bring all this up because I think it is important to consider for those
who are finding out about LibreSignal for the first time from the above
post. I think f-droid is great and I use the official and Guardian Project
repos whenever I can. However, I'm not using LibreSignal and I'm not going
to recommend it to people because I have little basis for evaluating him
or the security of his distribution infrastructure. adelante,
Boskote

[Boskote]

Post by Josh
Slightly off-topic, but does anyone know if CyenogenMod still integrates
with Signal automatically?

A single number cannot be registered with both WhisperPush and Signal at
the same time. In theory they are supposed to be able to communicate. I
haven't tried it myself, though as of mid-2015 communication between WP
and TextSecure/Signal seems to have had problems:
https://www.reddit.com/r/cyanogenmod/comments/31u0wb/does_whisperpush_work_with_signal/
https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Android/issues/3659

Also, even if communication between Signal and WhisperPush were working,
the usability of WP seems questionable. There were definitely major
problems with it in early 2014, when these posts were made to the list:

https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/whispersystems/2014-03/msg00094.html
" Moxie mentioned several times that the CM guys are completely
responsible for the WhisperPush implementation. Thus you should
probably point that out in their github:
https://github.com/CyanogenMod/android_external_whispersystems_WhisperPush/issues
I also think that not distinguishing between encrypted and unencrypted
communication is a fatal flaw. But unfortunately the whole WhisperPush
implementation seems rather unusable and not well maintained."

https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/whispersystems/2014-04/msg00012.html
" I am aware that OWS are not responsible for the further development of
WhisperPush. But it's the single biggest source of people who might use
the TS V2 protocol and basically unusable right now. Everyone with CM I
know has disabled it, some using TS instead.
Even the most basic things don't work:
- There is no indicator if the person you are talking to uses WP/TS.
- There is no SMS-fallback, but it works as a transparent middleware,
making it basically impossible to write an SMS to someone registered
with WP.
- No picture/media support
And because of the missing indicator you might not even know why
somebody "doesn't answer" your "SMS" when they actually just stopped
usig WP."

And unfortunately there doesn't seem to have been much substantive work
done on WP since then.

[Brinly Taylor]

The CM project has been recently working on bringing the protocol back to
CM-13.0 using the libtextsecure-java library via the SMS app.
We are dropping the system wide WhisperPush integration in favour of the
only endpoint being the SMS app which has capability to message Signal
users.
This means you cannot use third party SMS apps with WhisperPush anymore in
cm-13.0+
There is a button to verify keys and you can tell when you are about to
message someone "securely" via TextSecure and all of your other points
above are included.
We have code on GitHub but the UI hasn't been enabled yet.

Sorry for the lack of communication as it wasn't didn't really explain that
the protocol had fell out of sync with OWS Signal
app..

I can't offer anybody an ETA though.

-----
Sent from my mobile device.

Brinly

Post by Josh
Slightly off-topic, but does anyone know if CyenogenMod still integrates
with Signal automatically?
A single number cannot be registered with both WhisperPush and Signal at
the same time. In theory they are supposed to be able to communicate. I
haven't tried it myself, though as of mid-2015 communication between WP and
https://www.reddit.com/r/cyanogenmod/comments/31u0wb/does_whisperpush_work_with_signal/
https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Android/issues/3659
Also, even if communication between Signal and WhisperPush were working,
the usability of WP seems questionable. There were definitely major
https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/whispersystems/2014-03/msg00094.html
" Moxie mentioned several times that the CM guys are completely
responsible for the WhisperPush implementation. Thus you should
https://github.com/CyanogenMod/android_external_whispersystems_WhisperPush/issues
I also think that not distinguishing between encrypted and unencrypted
communication is a fatal flaw. But unfortunately the whole WhisperPush
implementation seems rather unusable and not well maintained."
https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/whispersystems/2014-04/msg00012.html
" I am aware that OWS are not responsible for the further development of
WhisperPush. But it's the single biggest source of people who might use
the TS V2 protocol and basically unusable right now. Everyone with CM I
know has disabled it, some using TS instead.
- There is no indicator if the person you are talking to uses WP/TS.
- There is no SMS-fallback, but it works as a transparent middleware,
making it basically impossible to write an SMS to someone registered
with WP.
- No picture/media support
And because of the missing indicator you might not even know why
somebody "doesn't answer" your "SMS" when they actually just stopped
usig WP."
And unfortunately there doesn't seem to have been much substantive work
done on WP since then.

[Bernard Tyers]

Hi Brinly,

Thanks for explaining that. I was trying to use the default SMS client
on my CM-12 phone with my other Signal contacts but there were problems.

So in short:

- if someone is using WhisperPush with the default CM SMS app, from
CM-13.0+ sending messages to other Signal users will continue to work?

- if someone is using WhisperPush with other SMS apps, from CM-13.0+
sending messages to other Signal users won't work?

- if someone is using Signal *without* WhisperPush (i.e. using Signals
registration to the Signal servers), from CM-13.0+ sending messages to
other Signal users will work?

Or have I got the above completely wrong?!

Thanks,
Bernard

Post by Brinly Taylor
The CM project has been recently working on bringing the protocol back to
CM-13.0 using the libtextsecure-java library via the SMS app.
We are dropping the system wide WhisperPush integration in favour of the
only endpoint being the SMS app which has capability to message Signal
users.
This means you cannot use third party SMS apps with WhisperPush anymore in
cm-13.0+
There is a button to verify keys and you can tell when you are about to
message someone "securely" via TextSecure and all of your other points
above are included.
We have code on GitHub but the UI hasn't been enabled yet.
Sorry for the lack of communication as it wasn't didn't really explain that
the protocol had fell out of sync with OWS Signal
app..
I can't offer anybody an ETA though.
-----
Sent from my mobile device.
Brinly

Post by Josh
Slightly off-topic, but does anyone know if CyenogenMod still integrates
with Signal automatically?
A single number cannot be registered with both WhisperPush and Signal at
the same time. In theory they are supposed to be able to communicate. I
haven't tried it myself, though as of mid-2015 communication between WP and
https://www.reddit.com/r/cyanogenmod/comments/31u0wb/does_whisperpush_work_with_signal/
https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Android/issues/3659
Also, even if communication between Signal and WhisperPush were working,
the usability of WP seems questionable. There were definitely major
https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/whispersystems/2014-03/msg00094.html
" Moxie mentioned several times that the CM guys are completely
responsible for the WhisperPush implementation. Thus you should
https://github.com/CyanogenMod/android_external_whispersystems_WhisperPush/issues
I also think that not distinguishing between encrypted and unencrypted
communication is a fatal flaw. But unfortunately the whole WhisperPush
implementation seems rather unusable and not well maintained."
https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/whispersystems/2014-04/msg00012.html
" I am aware that OWS are not responsible for the further development of
WhisperPush. But it's the single biggest source of people who might use
the TS V2 protocol and basically unusable right now. Everyone with CM I
know has disabled it, some using TS instead.
- There is no indicator if the person you are talking to uses WP/TS.
- There is no SMS-fallback, but it works as a transparent middleware,
making it basically impossible to write an SMS to someone registered
with WP.
- No picture/media support
And because of the missing indicator you might not even know why
somebody "doesn't answer" your "SMS" when they actually just stopped
usig WP."
And unfortunately there doesn't seem to have been much substantive work
done on WP since then.

[Leo Francisco]

Would it be too crazy to suggest that at some point in the future it
would be amazing to make Signal the default messaging app on Cyanogen Mod?

Assuming for example that Signal will eventually work without GCM via
websockets and loads of other hypothetical things happened (plus
reaching some sort of CM community consensus).

Post by Boskote

Post by Josh
Slightly off-topic, but does anyone know if CyenogenMod still integrates
with Signal automatically?

A single number cannot be registered with both WhisperPush and Signal
at the same time. In theory they are supposed to be able to
communicate. I haven't tried it myself, though as of mid-2015
https://www.reddit.com/r/cyanogenmod/comments/31u0wb/does_whisperpush_work_with_signal/
https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Android/issues/3659
Also, even if communication between Signal and WhisperPush were
working, the usability of WP seems questionable. There were definitely
major problems with it in early 2014, when these posts were made to
https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/whispersystems/2014-03/msg00094.html
" Moxie mentioned several times that the CM guys are completely
responsible for the WhisperPush implementation. Thus you should
https://github.com/CyanogenMod/android_external_whispersystems_WhisperPush/issues
I also think that not distinguishing between encrypted and unencrypted
communication is a fatal flaw. But unfortunately the whole WhisperPush
implementation seems rather unusable and not well maintained."
https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/whispersystems/2014-04/msg00012.html
" I am aware that OWS are not responsible for the further development of
WhisperPush. But it's the single biggest source of people who might use
the TS V2 protocol and basically unusable right now. Everyone with CM I
know has disabled it, some using TS instead.
- There is no indicator if the person you are talking to uses WP/TS.
- There is no SMS-fallback, but it works as a transparent middleware,
making it basically impossible to write an SMS to someone registered
with WP.
- No picture/media support
And because of the missing indicator you might not even know why
somebody "doesn't answer" your "SMS" when they actually just stopped
usig WP."
And unfortunately there doesn't seem to have been much substantive
work done on WP since then.

[Michel, Stephen J.]

Or, if this would take too long, a couple other options:

- Ship Signal as the default sms app only; if people want to enable encrypted messaging they can install the Gapps pico-package and then register with Signal (prompt them to do this?).

- Ship a community-maintained fork that supports websocket.

________________________________
From: whispersystems-***@lists.riseup.net [whispersystems-***@lists.riseup.net] on behalf of Leo Francisco [***@boywithwings.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 9:18
To: ***@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [whispersystems] Signal on Cyanogen Mod without gapps

Would it be too crazy to suggest that at some point in the future it would be amazing to make Signal the default messaging app on Cyanogen Mod?

Assuming for example that Signal will eventually work without GCM via websockets and loads of other hypothetical things happened (plus reaching some sort of CM community consensus).



On 04/01/16 08:16, Boskote wrote:
On 04/01/16 01:16 AM, Josh wrote:

Slightly off-topic, but does anyone know if CyenogenMod still integrates
with Signal automatically?


A single number cannot be registered with both WhisperPush and Signal at the same time. In theory they are supposed to be able to communicate. I haven't tried it myself, though as of mid-2015 communication between WP and TextSecure/Signal seems to have had problems:
https://www.reddit.com/r/cyanogenmod/comments/31u0wb/does_whisperpush_work_with_signal/
https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Android/issues/3659

Also, even if communication between Signal and WhisperPush were working, the usability of WP seems questionable. There were definitely major problems with it in early 2014, when these posts were made to the list:

https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/whispersystems/2014-03/msg00094.html
" Moxie mentioned several times that the CM guys are completely
responsible for the WhisperPush implementation. Thus you should
probably point that out in their github:
https://github.com/CyanogenMod/android_external_whispersystems_WhisperPush/issues
I also think that not distinguishing between encrypted and unencrypted
communication is a fatal flaw. But unfortunately the whole WhisperPush
implementation seems rather unusable and not well maintained."

https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/whispersystems/2014-04/msg00012.html
" I am aware that OWS are not responsible for the further development of
WhisperPush. But it's the single biggest source of people who might use
the TS V2 protocol and basically unusable right now. Everyone with CM I
know has disabled it, some using TS instead.
Even the most basic things don't work:
- There is no indicator if the person you are talking to uses WP/TS.
- There is no SMS-fallback, but it works as a transparent middleware,
making it basically impossible to write an SMS to someone registered
with WP.
- No picture/media support
And because of the missing indicator you might not even know why
somebody "doesn't answer" your "SMS" when they actually just stopped
usig WP."

And unfortunately there doesn't seem to have been much substantive work done on WP since then.

[Xavier Lebrun]

there are already some forks in alpha test that supports websockets

Post by Michel, Stephen J.
- Ship Signal as the default sms app only; if people want to enable
encrypted messaging they can install the Gapps pico-package and then
register with Signal (prompt them to do this?).
- Ship a community-maintained fork that supports websocket.
------------------------------
*Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2016 9:18
*Subject:* Re: [whispersystems] Signal on Cyanogen Mod without gapps
Would it be too crazy to suggest that at some point in the future it would
be amazing to make Signal the default messaging app on Cyanogen Mod?
Assuming for example that Signal will eventually work without GCM via
websockets and loads of other hypothetical things happened (plus reaching
some sort of CM community consensus).
Slightly off-topic, but does anyone know if CyenogenMod still integrates
with Signal automatically?
A single number cannot be registered with both WhisperPush and Signal at
the same time. In theory they are supposed to be able to communicate. I
haven't tried it myself, though as of mid-2015 communication between WP and
https://www.reddit.com/r/cyanogenmod/comments/31u0wb/does_whisperpush_work_with_signal/
https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Android/issues/3659
Also, even if communication between Signal and WhisperPush were working,
the usability of WP seems questionable. There were definitely major
https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/whispersystems/2014-03/msg00094.html
" Moxie mentioned several times that the CM guys are completely
responsible for the WhisperPush implementation. Thus you should
https://github.com/CyanogenMod/android_external_whispersystems_WhisperPush/issues
I also think that not distinguishing between encrypted and unencrypted
communication is a fatal flaw. But unfortunately the whole WhisperPush
implementation seems rather unusable and not well maintained."
https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/whispersystems/2014-04/msg00012.html
" I am aware that OWS are not responsible for the further development of
WhisperPush. But it's the single biggest source of people who might use
the TS V2 protocol and basically unusable right now. Everyone with CM I
know has disabled it, some using TS instead.
- There is no indicator if the person you are talking to uses WP/TS.
- There is no SMS-fallback, but it works as a transparent middleware,
making it basically impossible to write an SMS to someone registered
with WP.
- No picture/media support
And because of the missing indicator you might not even know why
somebody "doesn't answer" your "SMS" when they actually just stopped
usig WP."
And unfortunately there doesn't seem to have been much substantive work
done on WP since then.

[Alexis Métaireau]

Post by Xavier Lebrun
there are already some forks in alpha test that supports websockets

The problem with websockets is their cost at large scale, and I believe
it's the reason why this is using GCM right now.

I also see a problem of fragmentation: I'm not sure the servers are done
in a decentralized / distributed way, and it would create different
silos (e.g. the users you want to call would need to be registered to
the correct server, which would be then different for cyanogen mode
users than for the other users).

I believe the best course of action here is to either have the clients
use GCM or have Signal servers allow websocket connections / alternative
notification systems.

My 2 cents.
— Alex

Post by Xavier Lebrun
- Ship Signal as the default sms app only; if people want to enable
encrypted messaging they can install the Gapps pico-package and then
register with Signal (prompt them to do this?).
- Ship a community-maintained fork that supports websocket.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2016 9:18
*Subject:* Re: [whispersystems] Signal on Cyanogen Mod without gapps
Would it be too crazy to suggest that at some point in the future it
would be amazing to make Signal the default messaging app on Cyanogen Mod?
Assuming for example that Signal will eventually work without GCM
via websockets and loads of other hypothetical things happened (plus
reaching some sort of CM community consensus).

Post by Boskote

Post by Josh
Slightly off-topic, but does anyone know if CyenogenMod still integrates
with Signal automatically?

A single number cannot be registered with both WhisperPush and
Signal at the same time. In theory they are supposed to be able to
communicate. I haven't tried it myself, though as of mid-2015
https://www.reddit.com/r/cyanogenmod/comments/31u0wb/does_whisperpush_work_with_signal/
https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Android/issues/3659
Also, even if communication between Signal and WhisperPush were
working, the usability of WP seems questionable. There were
definitely major problems with it in early 2014, when these posts
https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/whispersystems/2014-03/msg00094.html
" Moxie mentioned several times that the CM guys are completely
responsible for the WhisperPush implementation. Thus you should
https://github.com/CyanogenMod/android_external_whispersystems_WhisperPush/issues
I also think that not distinguishing between encrypted and unencrypted
communication is a fatal flaw. But unfortunately the whole WhisperPush
implementation seems rather unusable and not well maintained."
https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/whispersystems/2014-04/msg00012.html
" I am aware that OWS are not responsible for the further
development of
WhisperPush. But it's the single biggest source of people who might use
the TS V2 protocol and basically unusable right now. Everyone with CM I
know has disabled it, some using TS instead.
- There is no indicator if the person you are talking to uses WP/TS.
- There is no SMS-fallback, but it works as a transparent middleware,
making it basically impossible to write an SMS to someone registered
with WP.
- No picture/media support
And because of the missing indicator you might not even know why
somebody "doesn't answer" your "SMS" when they actually just stopped
usig WP."
And unfortunately there doesn't seem to have been much substantive
work done on WP since then.

[Xavier Lebrun]

we are some persons aiming a solution outside of google and ios cloud
messaging services.

this will be a complement to actual signal app
depending if main developpers accept this or not in their own app

actually there is something exist as forks

main signal team can review it and merge it back

Post by Alexis Métaireau

Post by Xavier Lebrun
there are already some forks in alpha test that supports websockets

The problem with websockets is their cost at large scale, and I believe
it's the reason why this is using GCM right now.
I also see a problem of fragmentation: I'm not sure the servers are done
in a decentralized / distributed way, and it would create different
silos (e.g. the users you want to call would need to be registered to
the correct server, which would be then different for cyanogen mode
users than for the other users).
I believe the best course of action here is to either have the clients
use GCM or have Signal servers allow websocket connections / alternative
notification systems.
My 2 cents.
— Alex

Post by Xavier Lebrun
- Ship Signal as the default sms app only; if people want to enable
encrypted messaging they can install the Gapps pico-package and then
register with Signal (prompt them to do this?).
- Ship a community-maintained fork that supports websocket.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Xavier Lebrun
]
*Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2016 9:18
*Subject:* Re: [whispersystems] Signal on Cyanogen Mod without gapps
Would it be too crazy to suggest that at some point in the future it
would be amazing to make Signal the default messaging app on Cyanogen Mod?
Assuming for example that Signal will eventually work without GCM
via websockets and loads of other hypothetical things happened (plus
reaching some sort of CM community consensus).

Post by Boskote

Post by Josh
Slightly off-topic, but does anyone know if CyenogenMod still

integrates

Post by Xavier Lebrun

Post by Boskote

Post by Josh
with Signal automatically?

A single number cannot be registered with both WhisperPush and
Signal at the same time. In theory they are supposed to be able to
communicate. I haven't tried it myself, though as of mid-2015

https://www.reddit.com/r/cyanogenmod/comments/31u0wb/does_whisperpush_work_with_signal/

Post by Xavier Lebrun

Post by Boskote
https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Android/issues/3659
Also, even if communication between Signal and WhisperPush were
working, the usability of WP seems questionable. There were
definitely major problems with it in early 2014, when these posts

https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/whispersystems/2014-03/msg00094.html

Post by Xavier Lebrun

Post by Boskote
" Moxie mentioned several times that the CM guys are completely
responsible for the WhisperPush implementation. Thus you should

https://github.com/CyanogenMod/android_external_whispersystems_WhisperPush/issues

Post by Xavier Lebrun

Post by Boskote
I also think that not distinguishing between encrypted and

unencrypted

Post by Xavier Lebrun

Post by Boskote
communication is a fatal flaw. But unfortunately the whole

WhisperPush

Post by Xavier Lebrun

Post by Boskote
implementation seems rather unusable and not well maintained."

https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/whispersystems/2014-04/msg00012.html

Post by Xavier Lebrun

Post by Boskote
" I am aware that OWS are not responsible for the further development of
WhisperPush. But it's the single biggest source of people who might use
the TS V2 protocol and basically unusable right now. Everyone with CM I
know has disabled it, some using TS instead.
- There is no indicator if the person you are talking to uses WP/TS.
- There is no SMS-fallback, but it works as a transparent

middleware,

Post by Xavier Lebrun

Post by Boskote
making it basically impossible to write an SMS to someone registered
with WP.
- No picture/media support
And because of the missing indicator you might not even know why
somebody "doesn't answer" your "SMS" when they actually just stopped
usig WP."
And unfortunately there doesn't seem to have been much substantive
work done on WP since then.

[Leo Francisco]

Yeh, that's actually not a bad idea. At least people would be familiar
with the interface.

There is already a websockets fork that works perfectly for everything
apart from calls.
https://github.com/JavaJens/TextSecure
https://fdroid.eutopia.cz/

This is obviously quite a contentious issue but OWS might be interested
in the Cyanogen Mod integration if the code was very close to upstream,
as is the case with the current Web Sockets fork. Maybe that's where
Whisper Push went wrong. I'm sure this raises super complicated issues
but it's good to speculate.

Post by Michel, Stephen J.
- Ship Signal as the default sms app only; if people want to enable
encrypted messaging they can install the Gapps pico-package and then
register with Signal (prompt them to do this?).
- Ship a community-maintained fork that supports websocket.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2016 9:18
*Subject:* Re: [whispersystems] Signal on Cyanogen Mod without gapps
Would it be too crazy to suggest that at some point in the future it
would be amazing to make Signal the default messaging app on Cyanogen Mod?
Assuming for example that Signal will eventually work without GCM via
websockets and loads of other hypothetical things happened (plus
reaching some sort of CM community consensus).

Post by Boskote

Post by Josh
Slightly off-topic, but does anyone know if CyenogenMod still integrates
with Signal automatically?

A single number cannot be registered with both WhisperPush and Signal
at the same time. In theory they are supposed to be able to
communicate. I haven't tried it myself, though as of mid-2015
https://www.reddit.com/r/cyanogenmod/comments/31u0wb/does_whisperpush_work_with_signal/
https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Android/issues/3659
Also, even if communication between Signal and WhisperPush were
working, the usability of WP seems questionable. There were
definitely major problems with it in early 2014, when these posts
https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/whispersystems/2014-03/msg00094.html
" Moxie mentioned several times that the CM guys are completely
responsible for the WhisperPush implementation. Thus you should
https://github.com/CyanogenMod/android_external_whispersystems_WhisperPush/issues
I also think that not distinguishing between encrypted and unencrypted
communication is a fatal flaw. But unfortunately the whole WhisperPush
implementation seems rather unusable and not well maintained."
https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/whispersystems/2014-04/msg00012.html
" I am aware that OWS are not responsible for the further development of
WhisperPush. But it's the single biggest source of people who might use
the TS V2 protocol and basically unusable right now. Everyone with CM I
know has disabled it, some using TS instead.
- There is no indicator if the person you are talking to uses WP/TS.
- There is no SMS-fallback, but it works as a transparent middleware,
making it basically impossible to write an SMS to someone registered
with WP.
- No picture/media support
And because of the missing indicator you might not even know why
somebody "doesn't answer" your "SMS" when they actually just stopped
usig WP."
And unfortunately there doesn't seem to have been much substantive
work done on WP since then.