[whispersystems] Moving Signal to a new device

[mls]

Hi,

I have a new device and would like to move my old chats and keys from the old
to the new device. As described in
https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/whispersystems/2015-07/msg00074.html I use
adb backup org.thoughtcrime.securesms

The device asks me to approve the backup, but the backup.ad file is almost
empty. For other packages I can create backup files. Am I missing something?
Why does it not work for signal?

Thanks/regards

mls

[art1fa]

Hi mls,

Backups have been disabled in view of the Android M auto-backup feature.
Check your build.gradle file or simply revert commit 3bec127 to build
your own backup-enabled apk.
If you currently run the PlayStore build, a third-party backup app with
root privileges is required though.

Regards, art1fa

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [whispersystems] Moving Signal to a new device
From: mls <***@xlist.pw>
To: ***@lists.riseup.net <***@lists.riseup.net>
Date: 11/22/2015 01:23 PM

Post by mls
Hi,
I have a new device and would like to move my old chats and keys from the old
to the new device. As described in
https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/whispersystems/2015-07/msg00074.html I use
adb backup org.thoughtcrime.securesms
The device asks me to approve the backup, but the backup.ad file is almost
empty. For other packages I can create backup files. Am I missing something?
Why does it not work for signal?
Thanks/regards
mls

[Lenz Weber]

Hi art1fa,
so migrating from one un-rooted device to another is currently not
possible?

I may be seeing this wrong, but even self-building a backup-enabled app
would not solve this as that app would be signed with a different key,
and not able to be installed over the old app and thus not able to share
it's data..?

Could you please revert that change until the backup feature is fixed?

I can not recommend this app any more - even more, I am regretting to
ever have recommended it as I will have to migrate my girlfriends data
from her old (unrooted) phone to her new phone in the near future :/

And that's quite sad... usually I am enthusiastic about TextSecure/Signal :/

Regards,
Lenz

Post by art1fa
Hi mls,
Backups have been disabled in view of the Android M auto-backup feature.
Check your build.gradle file or simply revert commit 3bec127 to build
your own backup-enabled apk.
If you currently run the PlayStore build, a third-party backup app with
root privileges is required though.
Regards, art1fa
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [whispersystems] Moving Signal to a new device
Date: 11/22/2015 01:23 PM

Post by mls
Hi,
I have a new device and would like to move my old chats and keys from the old
to the new device. As described in
https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/whispersystems/2015-07/msg00074.html I use
adb backup org.thoughtcrime.securesms
The device asks me to approve the backup, but the backup.ad file is almost
empty. For other packages I can create backup files. Am I missing something?
Why does it not work for signal?
Thanks/regards
mls

[Steffen Märcker]

Hi all,

this is suprising and bad news. I had to rely on the system-level backup
several times and so did my friends. However, installing a custom build
and rooting their devices is not an option for obvious reasons.

So, how can we proceed from here to get complete backups of the messages,
given that the current export feature does not include attachments?

Best, Steffen

Post by Lenz Weber
Hi art1fa,
so migrating from one un-rooted device to another is currently not
possible?
I may be seeing this wrong, but even self-building a backup-enabled app
would not solve this as that app would be signed with a different key,
and not able to be installed over the old app and thus not able to share
it's data..?
Could you please revert that change until the backup feature is fixed?
I can not recommend this app any more - even more, I am regretting to
ever have recommended it as I will have to migrate my girlfriends data
from her old (unrooted) phone to her new phone in the near future :/
And that's quite sad... usually I am enthusiastic about
TextSecure/Signal :/
Regards,
Lenz

Post by art1fa
Hi mls,
Backups have been disabled in view of the Android M auto-backup feature.
Check your build.gradle file or simply revert commit 3bec127 to build
your own backup-enabled apk.
If you currently run the PlayStore build, a third-party backup app with
root privileges is required though.
Regards, art1fa
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [whispersystems] Moving Signal to a new device
Date: 11/22/2015 01:23 PM

<---Schnitt--->

[Johan Wevers]

Post by Lenz Weber
ever have recommended it as I will have to migrate my girlfriends data
from her old (unrooted) phone to her new phone in the near future :/

You still have time to root her phone then. Considering the extra
privacy options you have after rooting - firewalls, adblockers and
permission control - I consider working on a not-rooted phone as a
security and privacy problem. Of course, a good root-access tool like
SuperSU is required to regulate what gets access to root rights.

BTW, if you're rooted you can also install Lucky Patcher. This program
has an XPosed module that can disable signature verification, so you can
install a self-built version with a different signatre over an official one.

[Lenz Weber]

You are aware that there are quite a few phones where getting root
requires wiping the complete phone?
Even if it is in my case actually possible and I am planning to do it,
it is not a possibility for everyone.

Also, rooted systems are not more secure per se, quite the contrary.
Rooting always requires third-party binary code on the system - which
generally can be far less trusted than something from the play store.
It virutally screams "here, take my rootkit which also gives you root as
a side effect".

Of course, a security-enthusiastic user can (in the case that the root
does not contain malware) use all those privacy options.
But most normal users have no benefit of rooting whatsoever. Times have
changed, Android is pretty good unrooted as it is.

Post by Johan Wevers

Post by Lenz Weber
ever have recommended it as I will have to migrate my girlfriends data
from her old (unrooted) phone to her new phone in the near future :/

You still have time to root her phone then. Considering the extra
privacy options you have after rooting - firewalls, adblockers and
permission control - I consider working on a not-rooted phone as a
security and privacy problem. Of course, a good root-access tool like
SuperSU is required to regulate what gets access to root rights.
BTW, if you're rooted you can also install Lucky Patcher. This program
has an XPosed module that can disable signature verification, so you can
install a self-built version with a different signatre over an official one.

[Steffen Märcker]

Not to mention, that Signal is said to target the average user which can hardly be expected to root a device. Therefore, the only working backup solution is basically gone now.

Post by Lenz Weber
You are aware that there are quite a few phones where getting root
requires wiping the complete phone?
Even if it is in my case actually possible and I am planning to do it,
it is not a possibility for everyone.
Also, rooted systems are not more secure per se, quite the contrary.
Rooting always requires third-party binary code on the system - which
generally can be far less trusted than something from the play store.
It virutally screams "here, take my rootkit which also gives you root as
a side effect".
Of course, a security-enthusiastic user can (in the case that the root
does not contain malware) use all those privacy options.
But most normal users have no benefit of rooting whatsoever. Times have
changed, Android is pretty good unrooted as it is.

Post by Johan Wevers

Post by Lenz Weber
ever have recommended it as I will have to migrate my girlfriends

data

Post by Johan Wevers

Post by Lenz Weber
from her old (unrooted) phone to her new phone in the near future :/

You still have time to root her phone then. Considering the extra
privacy options you have after rooting - firewalls, adblockers and
permission control - I consider working on a not-rooted phone as a
security and privacy problem. Of course, a good root-access tool like
SuperSU is required to regulate what gets access to root rights.
BTW, if you're rooted you can also install Lucky Patcher. This

program

Post by Johan Wevers
has an XPosed module that can disable signature verification, so you

can

Post by Johan Wevers
install a self-built version with a different signatre over an

official one.

[Eric Mill]

I'm not sure an average user could be expected to run adb commands either.
The right solution is a full export feature from within the app.

-- Eric

Post by Steffen Märcker
Not to mention, that Signal is said to target the average user which can
hardly be expected to root a device. Therefore, the only working backup
solution is basically gone now.

Post by Lenz Weber
You are aware that there are quite a few phones where getting root
requires wiping the complete phone?
Even if it is in my case actually possible and I am planning to do it,
it is not a possibility for everyone.
Also, rooted systems are not more secure per se, quite the contrary.
Rooting always requires third-party binary code on the system - which
generally can be far less trusted than something from the play store.
It virutally screams "here, take my rootkit which also gives you root as
a side effect".
Of course, a security-enthusiastic user can (in the case that the root
does not contain malware) use all those privacy options.
But most normal users have no benefit of rooting whatsoever. Times have
changed, Android is pretty good unrooted as it is.

Post by Lenz Weber
ever have recommended it as I will have to migrate my girlfriends data

Post by Lenz Weber
from her old (unrooted) phone to her new phone in the near future :/

You still have time to root her phone then. Considering the extra
privacy options you have after rooting - firewalls, adblockers and
permission control - I consider working on a not-rooted phone as a
security and privacy problem. Of course, a good root-access tool like
SuperSU is required to regulate what gets access to root rights.
BTW, if you're rooted you can also install Lucky Patcher. This program
has an XPosed module that can disable signature verification, so you can
install a self-built version with a different signatre over an official one.

[Lenz Weber]

Yes, but at least there are apps (Helium) that can do the running of adb
commands for you if you don't know how to do it.

Bottom line: of course it would be wonderful to bring the backup back.
But there has been no visible effort from OWS over the last year or so,
even though the topic reappears on this mailinglist every few months. So
I wouldn't bet on it.
And in that context those adb backups are the only way we have (had)
right now :/

--Lenz

Post by Eric Mill
I'm not sure an average user could be expected to run adb commands
either. The right solution is a full export feature from within the app.
-- Eric
Not to mention, that Signal is said to target the average user
which can hardly be expected to root a device. Therefore, the only
working backup solution is basically gone now.
Am 23. November 2015 20:51:00 MEZ, schrieb Lenz Weber
You are aware that there are quite a few phones where getting root
requires wiping the complete phone?
Even if it is in my case actually possible and I am planning to do it,
it is not a possibility for everyone.
Also, rooted systems are not more secure per se, quite the contrary.
Rooting always requires third-party binary code on the system - which
generally can be far less trusted than something from the play store.
It virutally screams "here, take my rootkit which also gives you root as
a side effect".
Of course, a security-enthusiastic user can (in the case that the root
does not contain malware) use all those privacy options.
But most normal users have no benefit of rooting whatsoever. Times have
changed, Android is pretty good unrooted as it is.
ever have recommended it as I will have to migrate my
girlfriends data from her old (unrooted) phone to her
new phone in the near future :/
You still have time to root her phone then. Considering
the extra privacy options you have after rooting -
firewalls, adblockers and permission control - I consider
working on a not-rooted phone as a security and privacy
problem. Of course, a good root-access tool like SuperSU
is required to regulate what gets access to root rights.
BTW, if you're rooted you can also install Lucky Patcher.
This program has an XPosed module that can disable
signature verification, so you can install a self-built
version with a different signatre over an official one.
--
<https://twitter.com/konklone>

[#359]

i believe that devs are very much aware of the backup issue and it's
importance but they dedicate all their resources to tasks with even
higher priorities. i expect that now that we have a unified Signal app
working on Android and iOS and the release of a Signal browser add-on is
only days away, a full featured backup would become one of the top
priorities.


- jure

Post by Lenz Weber
Yes, but at least there are apps

(Helium) that can do the running of adb commands for you if you
don't know how to do it.
Bottom line: of course it would be wonderful to bring the backup
back. But there has been no visible effort from OWS over the last
year or so, even though the topic reappears on this mailinglist
every few months. So I wouldn't bet on it.
And in that context those adb backups are the only way we have
(had) right now :/
--Lenz

Post by Lenz Weber

Post by Eric Mill
I'm not sure an average user could be expected to

run adb commands either. The right solution is a full export
feature from within the app.

Post by Lenz Weber

Post by Eric Mill
-- Eric
On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 3:11 PM,

Post by Steffen Märcker
Not to mention, that Signal is said to target the

average user which can hardly be expected to root a
device. Therefore, the only working backup solution is
basically gone now.

Post by Lenz Weber

Post by Eric Mill

Post by Steffen Märcker
Am 23. November 2015 20:51:00

Post by Lenz Weber
You are aware that there are quite a few phones where getting root

requires wiping the complete phone? Even if it is in my case
actually possible and I am planning to do it, it is not a
possibility for everyone.

Also, rooted systems are not more secure per se, quite the contrary.
Rooting always requires third-party binary code on the system - which
generally can be far less trusted than something from the play store. It
virutally screams "here, take my rootkit which also gives you root as a
side effect".

Of course, a security-enthusiastic user can (in the case that the root
does not contain malware) use all those privacy options. But most normal
users have no benefit of rooting whatsoever. Times have changed, Android
is pretty good unrooted as it is.

Post by Lenz Weber

Post by Eric Mill

Post by Steffen Märcker

Post by Lenz Weber

Post by Johan Wevers

Post by Lenz Weber
ever have recommended it as I will have to migrate my girlfriends data

from her old (unrooted) phone to her new phone in the near future :/

Post by Lenz Weber

Post by Eric Mill

Post by Steffen Märcker

Post by Lenz Weber

Post by Johan Wevers
You still have time to root her phone then. Considering the extra

privacy options you have after rooting - firewalls, adblockers and
permission control - I consider working on a not-rooted phone as a
security and privacy problem. Of course, a good root-access tool like
SuperSU is required to regulate what gets access to root rights.

BTW, if you're rooted you can also install Lucky Patcher. This program
has an XPosed module that can disable signature verification, so you
can install a self-built version with a different signatre over an
official one.

Post by Lenz Weber

Post by Eric Mill
--
konklone.com

| @konklone[1]



Links:

1. https://twitter.com/konklone

[Scott Robinson]

[...] the release of a Signal browser add-on is only days away [...]

I feel like I must be missing some source of news. Where is the release
schedule discussed?

[#359]

Nowhere. But you get some information if you follow developement on
Github. Also the pairing feature is now present in the latest Signal
beta. It used to be present but hidden before.


- jure

Post by Scott Robinson

[...] the release of a Signal browser add-on is only days away [...]

I feel like I must be missing some source of news. Where is the
release schedule discussed?

[mls]

Post by art1fa
Hi mls,
Backups have been disabled in view of the Android M auto-backup feature.
Check your build.gradle file or simply revert commit 3bec127 to build
your own backup-enabled apk.
If you currently run the PlayStore build, a third-party backup app with
root privileges is required though.
Regards, art1fa

Just for the record: There is a PR https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Android/pull/4461 that reverts the change, but it was unfortunately rejected.

Regards, mls

[Sam Lanning]

There are some comments going on on the commit that made the change to
disable backups. In essence it's because android M now automatically backs
up apps to the cloud, and this disables this functionality, which is
obviously the correct thing to do!

See:
https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Android/commit/3bec127020ca9d63f0964672adfc90d5753d3a90#commitcomment-14557166

[Johan Wevers]

What should happen is that finally some work has to be made to restore
the encrypted backup option. It might not work flawlessly, but even
after restoring an old backup de-register and re-register usually
(always?) works.

So the quick hack would be to uncomment the code for the encrypted
backup, and de-register - re-register when importing an encrypted backup
(or show a warning). The current export is nearly useless as it only
exports the plain text messages (not even the text of mms messages).

[Moxie Marlinspike]

Anyone is welcome to take a shot at this. The very first step is to add
media message support to plaintext import/export. The 'SMS Backup &
Restore' app has support for MMS now, so we can continue with using that
format. It's not extremely well documented, though, so it will be a pain.

Once that's done we'd be most of the way there, and could talk about
maybe shoehorning group info into it, or encrypting the entire file.
MMS is the first step though.

- moxie

Post by Johan Wevers
What should happen is that finally some work has to be made to restore
the encrypted backup option. It might not work flawlessly, but even
after restoring an old backup de-register and re-register usually
(always?) works.
So the quick hack would be to uncomment the code for the encrypted
backup, and de-register - re-register when importing an encrypted backup
(or show a warning). The current export is nearly useless as it only
exports the plain text messages (not even the text of mms messages).

[Johan Wevers]

Post by Moxie Marlinspike
Anyone is welcome to take a shot at this. The very first step is to add
media message support to plaintext import/export. The 'SMS Backup &
Restore' app has support for MMS now, so we can continue with using that
format. It's not extremely well documented, though, so it will be a pain.

I think this approach is going from the wrong direction. Why make
yourself dependent on a closed source 3rd party app? The original
approach (basically, copy /data/data/org.thoughtcrime.securesms/* )
worked mostly fine, although some status information like session keys
might be outdated when restoring. And there is a small issue that it
makes a hardcopy of the link ti
/data/data/org.thoughtcrime.securesms/lib which is not needed (and might
give errors when restoring the backup on a different type of device).

Therefore uncommenting the code to do this, remove the lib and then
trigger a reset of all secure sessions would be a much better solution IMO.

[Moxie Marlinspike]

Post by Johan Wevers
I think this approach is going from the wrong direction. Why make
yourself dependent on a closed source 3rd party app? The original
approach (basically, copy /data/data/org.thoughtcrime.securesms/* )
worked mostly fine, although some status information like session keys
might be outdated when restoring. And there is a small issue that it
makes a hardcopy of the link ti

Because people want to be able to export their data if they'd like to
switch to another messenger, so that mechanism is necessary anyway, and
because the original approach didn't come close to working fine, and can
pretty much never be made to do so.

The "closed source app" has nothing to do with restoring via Signal,
which is apparently all you want to support anyway, so it wouldn't be a
factor in your life. If you'd like to handle writing the code that
exports back into the system tables instead of using existing work,
you're free to do so, but it's not the hill I want to die on.

- moxie

[Johan Wevers]

Post by Moxie Marlinspike

Post by Johan Wevers
I think this approach is going from the wrong direction. Why make
yourself dependent on a closed source 3rd party app? The original
approach (basically, copy /data/data/org.thoughtcrime.securesms/* )
worked mostly fine, although some status information like session keys
might be outdated when restoring. And there is a small issue that it
makes a hardcopy of the link ti

Because people want to be able to export their data if they'd like to
switch to another messenger, so that mechanism is necessary anyway,

That may be true, but moving Signal messages to a new phone is something
that happens more often I think. But nowhere I say the unencrypted
export option should be removed or not expanded. Sorry if I didn't make
that clear. I just say the export of everything else (including identity
keys, something the standard sms app will never use) is important.
Making the unencrypted export better is another discussion.

Post by Moxie Marlinspike
and because the original approach didn't come close to working fine,

and can

Post by Moxie Marlinspike
pretty much never be made to do so.

What is wrong with my approach? As I see it the old encrypted backup has
2 problems: exporting the lib (easily corrected) and exporting the
session keys so they might be out of sync when you restore. So resetting
all secure sessions after restore might solve that. I tested with it and
restored manually, that works but can easily be done in code (perhaps
even easier). Issues like the user has unregistered before restoring
might complicate things, but you'll always have that. Re-registerig
would solve that.

[Steffen Märcker]

Is anybody already actively working on this? If not, I am going to see how
far I can get during the holidays.

Best, Steffen

Post by Moxie Marlinspike
Anyone is welcome to take a shot at this. The very first step is to add
media message support to plaintext import/export. The 'SMS Backup &
Restore' app has support for MMS now, so we can continue with using that
format. It's not extremely well documented, though, so it will be a pain.
Once that's done we'd be most of the way there, and could talk about
maybe shoehorning group info into it, or encrypting the entire file.
MMS is the first step though.
- moxie

Post by Johan Wevers
What should happen is that finally some work has to be made to restore
the encrypted backup option. It might not work flawlessly, but even
after restoring an old backup de-register and re-register usually
(always?) works.
So the quick hack would be to uncomment the code for the encrypted
backup, and de-register - re-register when importing an encrypted backup
(or show a warning). The current export is nearly useless as it only
exports the plain text messages (not even the text of mms messages).

[agrajaghh]

looks like AsamK is working on MMS import/export:
https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Android/pull/4925

Post by Steffen Märcker
Is anybody already actively working on this? If not, I am going to see
how far I can get during the holidays.
Best, Steffen
Am .11.2015, 00:27 Uhr, schrieb Moxie Marlinspike

Post by Moxie Marlinspike
Anyone is welcome to take a shot at this. The very first step is to add
media message support to plaintext import/export. The 'SMS Backup &
Restore' app has support for MMS now, so we can continue with using that
format. It's not extremely well documented, though, so it will be a pain.
Once that's done we'd be most of the way there, and could talk about
maybe shoehorning group info into it, or encrypting the entire file.
MMS is the first step though.
- moxie

Post by Johan Wevers
What should happen is that finally some work has to be made to restore
the encrypted backup option. It might not work flawlessly, but even
after restoring an old backup de-register and re-register usually
(always?) works.
So the quick hack would be to uncomment the code for the encrypted
backup, and de-register - re-register when importing an encrypted backup
(or show a warning). The current export is nearly useless as it only
exports the plain text messages (not even the text of mms messages).

[Steffen Märcker]

Hi,

I am making progress with the backup function. However, I wonder which i=
s =

the _preferred_ way to insert messages into the databases.

1) The current PlaintextImporter inserts SMS by modifying the statement =
=

returned from SmsDatabase::createInsertStatement. Additionally, it handl=
es =

the encryption by itself. Is this the intended abstraction level?
2) There appear to be no similar methods for the MmsDatabase and =

PushDatabase.

I'd appreciate any advise.

Best, Steffen.

Post by agrajaghh
https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Android/pull/4925

Is anybody already actively working on this? If not, I am going to se=

e =

Post by agrajaghh

how far I can get during the holidays.
Best, Steffen
Am .11.2015, 00:27 Uhr, schrieb Moxie Marlinspike =

Anyone is welcome to take a shot at this. The very first step is to=

=

Post by agrajaghh

add
media message support to plaintext import/export. The 'SMS Backup &=
Restore' app has support for MMS now, so we can continue with using =

=

Post by agrajaghh

that
format. It's not extremely well documented, though, so it will be a=

=

Post by agrajaghh

pain.
Once that's done we'd be most of the way there, and could talk about=
maybe shoehorning group info into it, or encrypting the entire file.=
MMS is the first step though.
- moxie

What should happen is that finally some work has to be made to rest=

ore

Post by agrajaghh

the encrypted backup option. It might not work flawlessly, but even=
after restoring an old backup de-register and re-register usually
(always?) works.
So the quick hack would be to uncomment the code for the encrypted
backup, and de-register - re-register when importing an encrypted =
backup
(or show a warning). The current export is nearly useless as it onl=

y

Post by agrajaghh

exports the plain text messages (not even the text of mms messages)=

.

[Jens Mueller]

Hi,

Would it be possible to use the device link feature to hand over from the old device to the new one by linkin